Dhammarato
Dhammarato Dhammarato is a dhamma teacher in the lineage of Bhikkhu Buddhadasa. Now retired into the Lay life He spent many years as a monk in both Thailand and USA. He lives in Thailand on Kho Phangan and invites all dhamma friends to come hang out. He talks about the supramundane dhamma as instructed by Ajahn Pho the abbot of Wat Suan Mokkh.

Foundations of the Practice Rupesh 1 and Erik Z 4 1 1 20

Foundations of the Practice Rupesh 1 and Erik Z 4 1 1 20

Foundations of the Practice Rupesh 1 and Erik Z 4 1 1 20

Video

Transcript

Dhammarato: Okay. So, Eric, are you there yet?

Speaker B: Hi.

Dhammarato: Okay.

Speaker B: Okay.

Dhammarato: Well, hello, Eric.

Speaker B: Hi, Dhammarato. Hello. Hi, Eric. I’m Rupesh. Nice to meet you, Rupesh. Nice to meet you, Eric.

Dhammarato: How do you say your name, Rupesh?

Speaker B: Yes.

Dhammarato: Okay. Rupesh is just a new caller, and this is the first time that he’s called a few minutes ago, Eric. And so he was describing some experience that he had had with Goenka. He’d done Goenka retreat. And so, Rupesh, I have. I have done quite a lot with Goenka.

Speaker B: Oh, really?

Dhammarato: Well, I was in Iggy Puri at Domagherry for, oh, let us say something close to about three years. So I wasn’t there all of that three years in and out. And that I eventually became dissatisfied with the Gonka retreats and the way that they were doing it because they did the same simple beginning things over and over and over again. And so after that, I went to Bodh Gaia. Yeah. Since, you know, Nepal, you know where Bodh Gaia is. And I was there staying at the Thai temple at that time. I did not know many things that I know now, including that that temple was in fact associated with Bhikkhu Buddha Dasa. And that the two ways that I can demonstrate that was, is that one is that I did a retreat there with Christopher Titnus. I think that it was in 1983 and in December. And then I met a monk from Huachulapatan. Now, Huachulapatan is a possib, largest wat in Bangkok. And that this monk there was a student of Bhikkhu Buddha Dasa as almost all of the monks at Wat Chulipatan. And so he was the one that recommended that I go see Bhikkhu Buddha Dasa.

Speaker B: Okay.

Dhammarato: It was there that I got a completely different and more complete understanding of Anapanasati.

Speaker B: Yes.

Dhammarato: So what Goenka calls Anapana, basically, they do mindfulness of breathing for the first three days, and then they start doing body scanning for the next seven days. And that that takes one through step, actually, is kind of like not a right way of looking at step one directly into overdoing step three of Anapanasati in the sense of doing a systematic scan of the body over and over and over again. When that’s done correctly, it eventually allows the student to experience the whole body all at the same time. But what that it still has quite a lot of movement, but by then the body is fairly woken up, but that we don’t have to wake up the body In a systematic way. We can do it in a more natural way just by paying attention to whatever comes up. Yes, but we can think about it coming up in the sense of from time to time, experience the legs, make sure, you know, what position they’re in, but mostly associating with the body that we’re going to pay a whole lot more attention to the chest area, to the back, to the shoulders, to the belly. What this area is often referred to as the body of breath. In other words, the parts of the body that are associated with breathing are much more interesting than the parts of the body that are just extra appendages like legs and arms. All right. And that the reason for that is because this is where most of the blood in the body resides. It resides in this area in the sense of the lungs and the heart and all of the organs that are associated with both cleansing the blood and polluting the blood. And when I say polluting the blood, I’m talking more about the adrenaline glands that get the body ready for flight or fright. And so in that regard, it’s important to know basically how we feel in the association of how all of those body chemicals are affecting the body on the inside. But the way that we start with that is basically by starting on the outside of the body and kind of working in. So you’ve heard Gowenka talk about the touch of the cloth, the touch of the breath, that you can feel the sides of the body, you can feel the rising and the falling. In fact, that’s where the Mahasi and the Goenka system very much are in align with each other. But all of it has to do with Anapan Ashati. Yes, but they’re making, let us say, they’re glossing some of the most important qualities. And the reason for that is because they’re often later understood within the Anapanosati sutta. So one way of looking at it is that the Goanka method, they read that one particular chapter, not chapter, particular paragraph, and then they develop their entire process from one paragraph out of the Anapanasati sutta. And by doing so, they are missing some important points about it. And that is that the first thing about the Anapanasati sutta is that all the various steps of it, it actually states it that we’re going to develop those things as skills, and we’re going to develop them as skills while we’re watching the breath on the in and the out breath. Now that the watching of the breath has a really important quality to it. And I will Say this that I have been told, though I don’t remember the reference when I was reading the literature, but it said that someplace in the Basudi Maga that one should not try to control the breath. Well, when I was in Bodh Gaya, I was put pretty straight that the Basuddhi Maga is not the suttas and that it’s not reliable that this is not the right place to get your information about how to practice meditation. And it seems like that Buddhaghosa was, let us say, all book and no worm. In other words, he didn’t eat the book. He just. There’s the book and he reads it and then he compiles all of this stuff together. And so he’s more like a book editor that has no clue about the subject matter that he’s talking about.

Speaker B: Yes.

Dhammarato: And that in that regard, that’s one of the problems with the Basudi Maga yet in mostly Sri Lanka and Burma, but also in the little bit of Theravada that is in Nepal also has this issue going. By the way, where did you take the. The Goenka retreat? Was it in America or in South Asia?

Speaker B: It was in Nepal.

Dhammarato: It was in Nepal. Okay. They have a lot of Goenka centers in South Asia. There’s actually a very large center for Goenka here in. It’s in Bangkok. There’s a funny part about that. It’s kind of a side issue or a joke, and that is that there are many, many students who are in part of a loose organization and that they will come down to do Thai language retreats here at Watson Mok. And then they’ll get back on the bus and go home, back mostly to Bangkok. And then they’ll get together and with those buses to go out to the Goanker retreat. And then they come out of the Goanka retreat and then they go back home and they’ll wait for the next retreat and then they’ll take the buses and they’ll come down to Watson Mo. And so there’s in Thailand a very, very strong connection between the Goenka retreat centers and the Bhikkhu Gutodasa. That’s. There’s so much that’s interesting about Thailand like that that the Westerners don’t know. They think that Goenka kind of stands on his own. And yet. I’ve also recently seen a video of a Western monk that was ordained in Burma, lives in Burma, studies with those in Burma, but that he’s actually given this talk at the Watson Mok center in Bangkok, talking about Bhikkhu Buddha Dasa. So Bhikkhu Buddha Dasa is not centrally located just in Thailand, but he’s very big time in Thailand. And that. And that the practice that Vika Buddhadasa teaches is more complete. He actually said this one time that I would like to be able to teach a retreat so that all that the student know, needs to know can be given to him in that one retreat. But that’s not the way that the Goenka retreats work. The Goenka retreats work in the sense of just getting the students started. Let’s get them going correctly. So it’s like that where Goenka wants to do the first grade in the first grade. Biku Buddha Dasa wants to give them a PhD in budology in their first grade. And that the way that we approach that is what is called the natural method as opposed to the organized method.

Speaker B: Yes.

Dhammarato: Now, what we mean by the natural method is basically anything goes or anything that comes needs to be dealt with right here, right now, to where with the organized method, it is. Never mind. What’s really going on here is step one, you do that correctly, and then never mind what’s happening in your life, you do step two.

Speaker B: Yes.

Dhammarato: All right. And so this is one of the reasons why a lot of students have trouble with the Goenka retreats is because it’s not suited to what the student needs. It’s trying to follow a program.

Speaker B: I, for three days, I did anapana sati up my nose, right? Watching, observing the breath, and I felt great. But in the seventh day or sixth day, when I was doing the body scan, Mindful body scan, Organized mindful body scan. He wanted us to scan from the hip tip of the head to the bottom of the toe, right? And I was just gradually. And I could feel my. There was tension building up in my jaws due to, you know, the. It was because it was artificial. That’s not how body works. You know what I mean? So there’s still this tension right now. Little bit of the tension is right now still in my jaws. Like, I can feel a little bit tired.

Dhammarato: Okay, so here’s a question for you. And that is. It’s actually got three possible answers. The first one was, do you think that doing the body scanning itself created that stuff?

Speaker B: Yes.

Dhammarato: Or two, was it something that would happen kind of on its own new, because you’re beginning to practice Anapanasati. In other words, there are both two new things. One, that is directly that practice of the body scanning or two, that while you’re doing meditation in general, new things come up. Or the third possibility is that tension is not new, it’s old. And that you have been in a state of tension in your life before, but didn’t know it.

Speaker B: No, I. As far as I can remember, before I went to the going car retreat, I also used to do some meditation. I think I thought I watched couple of Migir Rinpoche’s videos. Do you know Miguel Rinpoche? And then he told to be aware of the breath. And I just. I just used to do on my own random meditation, but I had no random observing the breath, but I had no sustensions. And then I went to the retreat. It was pretty intense. Then I could find on my sixth day, it was getting stronger. And then. But. And then I tried to go out of the retreat, but they would not let me go out. And they told me, I’ve already made this today. And I could feel if I keep doing this, I might have a trouble, but I did it. And then the tenzin is going away, but it’s still there. So that’s.

Dhammarato: Did they bother to tell you step four of Anapanasati in the form of telling you, well, just relax.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Dhammarato: Did they tell you to do that?

Speaker B: They just told. Just relax. They just told. It’s there. They told. What they were saying to me is they were saying if it was, you know, some dissolve, like I already had some bad things in my body and it came out and I was like. Like, it’s. It’s very different. I feel it’s like the nervous tension, you know what I mean? Rather than. Because attention, these things are very nervous. Right? Because concentration, attention. Right. And then, you know, while I was scanning and I was. While I was scanning, I was not. They told. So the going car, the player going cars, tip where going. I was giving instructions and then going car told that work as diligently as possible, as hard as you can, you know. And then in these 10 days, you’re gonna. It’s gonna improve a lot. And then when I was body scanning, I was not only scanning, I was literally piercing my body. Like I was trying to. You know what I mean? I was working so hard, so I must have done overdone.

Dhammarato: That’s something that happens with many students, is they work too hard.

Speaker B: Yes.

Dhammarato: The way that I discuss Anapanasati is incorporating it directly with the four noble truths and the eight full noble Path. That. That’s the point of Anapan Asti anyway, is to really understand what’s going on. So let’s look at first off, right effort, which is one of the elements of the path that most students practice with, not the exactly the right effort. Now the right effort is a balanced effort. It’s not too much and it’s not too little. And yet most Westerners will do one and then the other back and forth. They’ll work too hard and then they’ll get tired of doing that and so then they’ll rest a while. And now they’re not practicing with enough effort. And so strenuous effort is not the right way. Step number four of Anapanosati, the word that’s actually in the Pali has to do with passivity, being passive and letting things pass. Now the word that’s translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi is tranquility. But tranquility misses. If he had left the Pali word in there and described what it meant, it would have been more useful because when we, most people also will see Buddhism, let us say, as highfalutin, high flung way out there in the sense of approaching or fully into magic. And so this word tranquilizing almost takes on magical quality. And therefore, because it’s got magical qualities now, it’s way out there and it can’t be done now, it’s got to be done way off into the future. Well, if you bring it down to the actuality of what that means to relax, it actually means that we need to start to train ourselves with every breath to start to relax. Yes, if we relax, then that facial tension, you can do what you need to do. And that another quality that I think is, let us say has polluted the actual teachings of the Buddha, is that in the Goenka retreat, especially when they get to the point of strong determination sittings that the student will keep his hands still, his legs still, his eyes closed, those are the three things that they mention. But then the student thinks, oh, that means everything. And to know it does not mean the head, that in fact, if there’s tension in the neck or the head, you can do things to roll around to get that to relax. You can also do it with your shoulders to move around. But this idea of, oh, there’s a certain way to do things and that I’ve got to follow this exact program and then you make up part of that program yourself or other students do. Another example of that is that when a student begins to slouch, if he notices that because he’s watching the body, then he’ll straighten up just a bit. Now, not too much but the. There is a curve in the spine, and so we don’t want to straighten up so much that we remove that curve. But the other quality is that if we’re bent over, then not only is the rib cage collapsed and we’re not getting enough air, but when we’re like that, then it causes tension in the back, because now the gravity is pulling us down this way. But if we’re sitting up straight, then the gravity is actually pulling us straight down, and therefore, it takes a whole lot less work to sit up straight.

Speaker B: That is very true.

Dhammarato: Now, all of the stuff about what kind of postures and that kind of stuff, there’s nothing about it in the suttas. All of this sitting meditation stuff that you find in various temples throughout Southeast Asia is later editions. All right. An example of that is that starting in the time of soak, this was, by the way, the time when Alexander the Great came into India and Asoke was one of the people who fought against it. It was in that time when we started having a lot of statuary or images of the Buddha, because before that, there had not been any. That. That was a Greek edition. And so now modern people, they see the Buddha sitting still. Well, he’s. The question then would be, is he sitting still because he has come to rest and has got no place to go and nothing to do? Or is he sitting still because he was told to do that and he’s got to practice really hard at sitting still? Which do you think it was? If it’s the organized way, then we say, oh, he was told to do that, and now he’s making himself sit really still.

Speaker B: But yeah, but once there’s an organized way, you know, mind always resist. So it’s very hard. That’s not your nature. Somebody’s trying to force you something.

Dhammarato: Right. So the actual method, the practice, is a natural way.

Speaker B: Yes.

Dhammarato: Now, even though we’re going to describe the natural way, generally it has to be described in some sort of organized fashion so as to not miss out on stuff.

Speaker B: Yes.

Dhammarato: But it’s to be practiced in a more natural way.

Speaker B: Yes.

Dhammarato: I’ll add this to that. There is a teaching of the Buddha called Petit Samupada. That’s the Thai word, or potit samupada. It’s translated into English as dependent origination. Have either one of you heard about this teaching?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Dhammarato: No. Okay. This is actually the Second Noble Truth, and it is part of the practice that we need to do. In other words, when we get the mind fit for work, then we’re going to watch how it works. And the patita samupada is actually the. The description of how the mind works, it looks like. Eric, are you still there?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Dhammarato: Yes. Okay. Yeah. You were sitting so still that I thought that the image had frozen. So, getting back to the natural practice, going to the breath, one of the things that we come to understand with anapanosati through the whole practice is that it is, in fact, breath control. That it’s not just watching the breath as if it were something on the outside out of our control. That basically we need to learn to control the breathing. Because normally we’re not getting enough air.

Speaker B: Yes.

Dhammarato: And so we need to actually intentionally breathe. That’s why we call it the long breath. The long breath is going to get some air into the body and then.

Speaker B: It feels the belly.

Dhammarato: Right. And then the out breath is going to be also used for that relaxation, to actually sigh. So we take in a deep breath in and then sigh as an out breath. And that out breath then actually helps the lungs clean things out, which is collected from the blood. There’s a whole lot more that comes out of the blood into the lungs besides carbon dioxide. There’s amino acids that are breaking down and other things like that. So the very little stuff, the breathing will eliminate. But if we’re breathing very shallowly, then that stuff will actually build up into the lungs and then it backs up and stays in the blood. That stuff that stays in the blood then can be experienced directly as tightness, as tension, things like this that then we give labels to, like anxiety. And so by breathing deeply and in a relaxed way, we begin to clean the blood. And therefore we. We actually also are oxygenating the mind to make it fit for work. That you probably heard that when a person is just sitting at rest, that most of the energy that’s being consumed is with the brain. That the brain, in fact, is a major organ that uses energy. But if we’re not breathing properly, then the brain is not functioning very well. One thing that I’ve noticed in my own past is that if I go out with family or eat too much or it’s a birthday and we have a lot of sweets for the birthday cake or whatever, and I’ve got a lot of food to digest that prevents the brain from actually functioning well. So if you have a job, if you go out and have a big lunch, when you come back to the office, you won’t have good afternoon of fulfilled work, because all of the blood and all of the work is now in the belly. And so we should take that into consideration that I’ve actually seen that I can’t think very well when the belly is full, but that when the belly doesn’t have a lot of work to do and we’re intentionally breathing well, then that oxygenates the brain so that we can make it basically what Vika Buddhadasa calls fit for work. So when the brain gets fit to work and we’re breathing correctly, now we’re setting the stage for other aspects of Anapanasati. And so by taking the right effort, that means that we’re not working very tight, that we’re actually taking the effort to actually relax. Okay, Now, Gonka has a very famous phrase. He calls it when the mind wanders away. Never mind, start again.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Dhammarato: All right. The mind wanders. That’s its purpose in life. Just like you would see a cow going around the pasture, finding nice, tasty grass to eat, or a horse. All right? That. That’s how the mind works. Also, that it kind of jumps or flitters that in all centuries ago, Buddhist got the term that I think is actually used sometimes. It go monkey mind. Have you ever heard that expression monkey mind? Okay, so that means that the mind is jumping around a lot. That’s its normal state. And yet when students see that the mind has in fact wandered away from the breath and is off someplace else, they start to feel bad because they’re beginning to have some insight into that they cannot control the mind. At least they’ve never developed any skills for controlling the mind. And in our education system, we teach people how to control an automobile. We teach people how to control a computer, how to control a cell phone, how to manipulate each other sometimes. But we never teach people how to learn to control their own mind, how to be discerning, how to look for things. And so when we begin this practice of Anapanasati, we begin to see that, wait a minute, we are actually out of control. The mind will wander away. My intention is to watch the breath and don’t watch. And so the problem then is that the students begin to develop the wrong attitude. Now, the important point is that we’re here to remove the hindrances from the mind. And that you can think of that wandering mind is actually restlessness. There’s other kinds of hindrances, like doubt, or the mind gets dull because we’re not breathing enough, or that we want things that we don’t have in the moment, like enlightenment or other things like this. And so if the mind wanders away and the student sees the mind wandering away, we then begin to want for the mind to be different than it is, and we become dissatisfied and disappointed. In fact, what we’re. If we do that, then we’re surely practicing wrongly. If the entire teaching of the Buddha is to come out of a state of dukkha, then anytime that you’re actually creating dukkha in your sitting meditation, then you’re not practicing correctly. Does that make sense? Okay, so the word dukkha in the Pali language is translated generally into English as the word suffering. And most people will say, oh, I’m not suffering. No, we know you’re not suffering, but you’re also not in a state of great satisfaction. And so this is actually what the word dukkha means is it means it is unsatisfying, it’s unsatisfactory that this is not pleasant, it’s not pleasing, it’s not nice, it’s dissatisfying. So when the mind now is cleaned out of all of its dissatisfactions, or let us say, all of the hindrances or obstructions to dissatisfaction, now we can develop the skills that we need for satisfaction. All right, now this word satisfaction actually has a Pali word for it called suka, which is exactly opposite of the word dukkha, and that is wrongly translated as the word pleasure. But we’ll leave it that way for just a moment to show what we’re talking about. That if you can sit in a state of pleasure.

Speaker B: Satisfaction.

Dhammarato: Satisfaction to be in a state of pleasure rather than the state of dissatisfaction, which is not pleasurable. All right, so this is actually step six of Annapanosati, a place that Goenka doesn’t ever get around to talking about in the groups because he’s got people doing step one and step a little bit, two, and mostly step three. So part of the satisfaction is going to be to have the body relaxed. And so when we’re practicing the Natural west method or the natural way, that means that we’re using all of these stages of Anapanasati not in order, but rather as a symphony, working with them all together. Now, step 10 of Anapanasati is one that’s it needs to be practiced right from the very beginning. This is really for the beginner, the most important point, and that is what the suttas call of gladdening the mind or bringing the mind up to a state of brightness.

Speaker B: What is that?

Dhammarato: Talk yourself into being satisfied. We want to gladden the mind. We want to not just sharpen it with the breath, but we’re actually going to change what we’re thinking. We’re going to think good thoughts. Affirmations would be a way of talking about it. But a very good example of that which is actually going to be useful for both of your practices from now on is that when you recognize that you’re in a state of obstruction, when you recognize that the mind is obstructed or that you feel bad or whatever it is, you can say, I see that that’s the most important thing, is to wake up to these obstructions of the mind, to wake up to anxiety, anger, tension, sadness, fear, whatever it is that we’re feeling. Excuse me, Whatever we’re feeling or whatever we’re thinking, we’re normally thinking things that are not wholesome, not useful, not valuable, and in fact are generally dissatisfying. An example of that is looking in the past to find things that are wrong or broken, problems to be solved, and then thinking about the solution. Well, while we’re sitting there meditating, we’re not meditating at all. We’re problem solving. But we’re not problem solving either. We’re just sitting on the floor. We’re not actually solving the problem. We’re not doing it. We’re just thinking about it. Okay, so this is a big waste of time.

Speaker B: Yes.

Dhammarato: This is when we talk about not putting in the right effort. So it does take some effort. It takes some effort to breathe, it takes some effort to relax. It takes some effort to remember, to bring. To drag the mind out of its own sewer and bring it to the present moment. And so I generally use the phrase with the students, aha, I caught you. Aha, I see you, Mr. Hendrance. Aha, I see you, Mr. Wandering Mind. Now when we say that, we’re actually chased away, the wandering mind. When I say, aha, I see you, wandering mind. Then. Now what we’ve just said has chased out whatever it was or if we’re thinking about sister Susie over there. And then we say, aha, sister Susie is not here, she’s there. Why am I thinking about her instead of thinking about what’s happening right now? And so we can say then, aha, I see you, sister Susie. Aha, I see you. All right, then you begin to say that with the anxiety too. Aha, I see this anxiety. Aha, I see this tension in the face. So these are various things that we begin to say. This is actually the gladdening the mind that’s associated with the waking up process. Now this waking up process is called in the Pali, it’s called sati. Sati. Is actually to wake up. Another way of looking at sati is using the word remembering that I remember that I’m going to watch the breath. And so this is what sati is really about. Though in English, it’s been translated into the word mindfulness. But mindfulness has more complexity. And because the complexity of it has to do not so much with remembering, which is what sati really is, or the waking up. But it’s the paying attention or the looking part. But the Buddha was very, very clear about that. These two things go together. One is to wake up to see, and then the other one is, now we’re going to start doing an investigation. Now, when we recognize that the mind has wandered away from the breath, when the mind wanders away from the breath, never mind, start again. Well, what happened one is that sati just occurred because we woke up to the fact that the mind was not. Was wandering away from the breath. This is also step nine of anapanosati, which is the first element of the sita nupasana. You know that anapanasati sutta is based upon the four foundations of mindfulness called the satipatthana, and that’s the body, the feelings, the mind, and the mind’s objects. So so far, we’ve talked about the body in the sense of the breathing. Step one, two, three, and four. Relaxing the body, experiencing the body. We’ve also now started talking about step nine of Anapanosati. In other words, we can’t do step one, two, three, or four unless we’re doing step nine. That’s the first thing that happens, is to wake up to experience that. Hey, I’m not watching the breath. This is a skill to be developed, and it also is referred to as experiencing the mind, which means that as we develop that skill, we’re going to experience the mind more and more and more. First off, we’re going to experience the condition of the mind or the state that the mind is in in the senses. Is it drowsy? Is it restless, Is it sharp, Is it exalted? All of these things are based upon just examples of what it is. But when you’re actually experiencing the mind, you may not have any words for it. You’re just looking at it, you’re seeing it. And then the next thing that we’re going to do, after we recognize that the mind has wandered away from the breath and that we’re beginning to experience what the mind is like, eventually that will take us into paticca samupada, which means now we’re going to not just look at the state that the mind is, but we’re going to begin to look at the way that the mind functions. We’re going to begin to start looking at the process of the mind. So the way that we need to do that is by operating basically with good wholesome thoughts as opposed to unwholesome thoughts. Because the patita samapada is actually the pathway as to how we wind up in suffering, how we wind up in dukkha, how we wind up in a state of dissatisfaction is basically because we’re not watching the way that we’re feeling. And so that brings Instep 2 of the Satya patana and that is vedana or the feelings. But we need to really work with the mind and the body first, and then we’ll bring in the feelings. And I would say that that can be done within a week or two. But in the beginning we start just with watching the mind in the sense of is it wandering away? Is it restless? Is it tired, Is it in doubt? Is it cloudy, Is it bright, Is it shining, Is it exalted? Is it fit for work? Literally. And so this is the state of mind that we’re going to be in. And the state of getting the mind fit for work is done with the breathing of getting enough air. So once we do that and start to gladden the mind. Aha, I caught you. Now we’re going to start then begin working with the feelings so that we begin to intent intentionally feel good. We want to intentionally bring the mind into a state of satisfaction. This is also part of one’s right effort. So to back up with that we have on the Eightfold noble path, the first item is right view. Now just we’re going to sit down and do some meditation. That’s one’s right view. Starting right there. It is better to watch the breath than it is to have the mind wandering all over the place. That’s also right view. So we’re beginning to develop more and more right view in the sense of what is in fact the right way to live our lives as opposed to following all the orders that we got from our past. All of the couldas shouldas, what is all the you ought to do this and ought to do that’s we’re not going to pay so much attention to that stuff as to see right now in this very moment what’s the right thing to do, what is our right view. And so with right view as a foundation, then the first thing that we get is this sati. When we do that. We need to start applying right effort. And that right effort is to gladden the mind and to take a deep breath. And by gladdening the mind, then, aha, I caught you. Becomes actually another way of saying it. This is really nice. I really like this meditation. This stuff is good. It’s valuable. At least I don’t have to think about Sister Susie right now. I can think about being here in this present moment, which is a very wonderful state. And so you can see how we’re beginning to put these things together eventually. And when I say eventually, that eventuality can be within seconds or weeks. But it’s not going to be years or lifetimes or anything like that. It’s going to be something that we practice, and that is one’s right attitude. And one’s right attitude then is associated mostly with step five of Anapanosati, which the right attitude is actually a good feeling. And the attitude is, I’m no longer a victim, I’m now a winner. That the victimhood is actually how we were raised. We were raised as being a victim in the sense of the child is told to do things and the child doesn’t want to do them. Then the parent says, I told you to do that. You do it because I told you to do it. In other words, whether you want to do it or not is not the point. In fact, it’s quite okay if you feel bad so long as you do what you were told to do. Learn your ABCs. Learn your 1, 2, 3s. Clean your room, shut up. All of this stuff is actually puts us in a state of being a victim. And so we wind up spending our whole lives in this victim state. And we become victims of the government, victims of religion, victims of the educational system, and most. And the biggest one is victims of business. And when I say victims of business, that means being victims of business means, I’ve got to get a job, I’ve got to play with the money, I’ve got to have more money. I have to do this, I have to do that. I have to go buy this. And then business says, oh, well, you can’t be happy now. You have to do what we tell you to do, and then you can be happy later. All right, where did they get that? They got that from religion. That’s what religion teaches you. Do good now, and you later will get your reward. So big business says, okay, we’re going to play that bait and switch game too. Yes, we’re going to sell you something now and tell you it’ll make you happy. And whether it does or not is not the point. The point is, can we sell it to you? Because that’s how we get our benefit. Okay. So once we recognize, oh, no, we do not have to play the victim’s role of getting our joy and our satisfaction and our happiness from the outside world, we can start to create that right inside one’s own mind.

Speaker B: That’s very true. That is very true.

Dhammarato: Yes. You have to create it within one’s own mind. Well, this then winds up being step five of Anapanosati. And it’s under the label of the Pali word is piti. And piti and sukha work together. Not only are these steps 5 and 6 of Anapanasati, but they are also two of the aspects of first jhana. So if you’re practicing Anapanosati correctly, it will take the student into first Jhna. And the practice of anapanasati, taking someone into first Jhna will then be what we call the path of first janna, not yet the fruit, because that path is always going into first John and then falling out and let the mind wander away again. And then we come back again practicing correctly and starting up first John again, over and over and over again. But as we do this, we begin to develop the possibility of sustaining it so that it doesn’t last just a breath or two. But if we begin to sustain it now, the way that we do that is by beginning to see what and how it is that we come out of this first Jhna without actually developing it completely so that we don’t have completely satisfaction, we don’t have the complete attitude developed yet. And that attitude that’s being developed is the attitude of a winner. The Buddha was known as several things. One was the Tathagata, which meant he’s here now. And the other one is that the Buddha was known to be a lion, not a lamb, not a sheep. He was a lion. He was a tough dude.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Dhammarato: He had the right attitude.

Speaker B: Yeah. I have actually heard a story about how, you know, there was a guy with 1000 fingers.

Dhammarato: Angulimala.

Speaker B: Yes. And then they told Buddha not to go that way because he’s gonna kill everybody on the way. And Buddha said, that’s why I need to go, because he needs me, or something like that. So you are the lion.

Dhammarato: Yes, that’s exactly right. That the Buddha was a lion. In other words, he was not afraid of Angulimala.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Dhammarato: That’s the number 86, by the way, in the Majumenikaya but you’re making the point for me now, and that is that the Buddha was lionhearted, he was strong, he was not afraid of anything. And that much of that comes to do with the phrase, I can do this, this is doable, we can do this. All right, that’s the right attitude that’s developed. And that attitude is also associated then with step 5 of Anapanasati of that pity of that can do attitude. It’s that this is great. No problems, mate. This is good stuff. That attitude is to be also developed. And once we have that strong attitude of being the lion, that we feel really successful at what we’re doing, then we begin to get satisfied with it. And now we’ve gotten that state of satisfaction, and we want to actually maintain that state of satisfaction. That’s the trick, is how to maintain it. And the way to maintain it is basically if you have wholesome thoughts about maintaining it, if you have good thoughts, if you’re gladdening the mind continuously, then you can maintain that state of satisfaction. But if thoughts come in, if the mind wanders away, then those thoughts will carry you out of even watching the breath. Never mind the sukkah, never mind the pity, never mind the gladdened mind, everything just out it goes when we forget and we get lost again. But do not get discouraged about that, because that’s the normal state of the mind. And that sati, then, is the very first thing that needs to be developed over and over and over and over again. And this is also part of the reason we’ll talk about it deeply later, about we need to get into a state so that we can constantly remember, because the mind is going to constantly wander away. So we do this thing called sitting meditation or formal practice or whatever like that. But the main point about this formal practice is to practice sati, to remember to keep coming back and coming back and coming back so that when we get off the cushion, we can continue to develop that sati, so that when we get to the point that sati keeps coming whenever we need it, yeah, the mind can wander away. Yeah, I can do that email. But while I’m writing that email, I can remember to breathe, I can remember to be happy. I don’t have to trash whoever I’m talking to. I can be good here. I can do it. Okay. And so our whole life then becomes revolved around this sati practice that has to do with taking a deep breath, gladdening the mind, perking ourselves up, getting ourselves into a state of, let us say, the attitude of I can do this, that I’m the successful one here. I don’t have to compete with anyone because I’m the champion. And so this is not a state of pride, this is a state of joy. This is a state of satisfaction. And it needs to be practiced over and over and over and over again. And so this is basically the way that that Goenka is starting. But I’m giving you much more of an overview about how to actually do the practice. So that when you begin, for instance, to have some tension in your face, you can say, oh, I see that tension in the face. Let me breathe into that. Let me watch that tension melt away. Let me come to a state of relaxation. And so this is the right way to practice. And if you’re practicing correctly, then you begin to really like meditation. This is good stuff. I’d rather spend my time doing this and thinking about Sister Susie. Wow, what a problem that is to think about or my job, that when you’re actually doing the job, then that’s a good time to think about the job. But I’m not talking about being in the office, because most people, when they’re in the office, they’re not doing their job. They’re thinking about being at home or with Sister Susie or something because they forget to do that while they’re at their work. They should be doing their job. But when you’re actually doing your job, then do the job, but do it mindfully. Watch what you’re doing. And then this way, you’re beginning to bring your meditation practice into your whole life. This is where the word meditation then begins to break down. It’s actually not even a good word to use, but that’s the word that we were given, like suffering and concentration and all of these other words that are really not really what we’re doing here. This thing that we’re doing, this anapanosati, this training and skill development is also referred to as sita bhavana, mental development or mental training. And so this is what we should look at. Not just meditation, but rather to train the mind together up the skills that it needs to have a happy life, a joyful life. One that’s not a victim that you’re the champion, you’re the boss here. This is your life. Nobody else is going to lead it to you. And by doing it that way, we’re also beginning to understand, oh, now we know where all the suffering comes from. It comes from right here. That’s where all the dukkha comes from. I’m making It, I’m creating it, and I’m not going to be doing that so much anymore. And so this is how the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Noble Path come into operation right from the very beginning of one’s practice of Anapanosati. And when we’re practicing an upanishad directly, it begins to help develop the first Jhna so that we’re in a state where the mind is fit from work so that we can apply the mind and sustain it. Ah, that’s the sustainment, then, of the satisfaction when we say apply the mind. Apply the mind to what? And to sustain it on what? The answer is apply the mind to this present moment and to sustain the satisfaction of being in this present moment when we can in fact sustain dissatisfaction, then that becomes the fruit of the first Jhna and that it becomes extremely valuable because now the mind is really fit for work. It’s really fit to see this present moment in all of its glory because it’s vast. There is so much happening right now. And we’ll talk about that later, but we got to get the mind fit work so that we can actually see what’s really going on inside the body and inside the mind and outside in the world with all of the causes and effect relationships that are happening at a fantastic speed. And so this is basically then the practice of the Four Noble Truths, the Eight Full Noble Path, along with Anap and the Satipatthana, so that we begin to see how the mind works itself, which is. And the outcome of this is lightness, that we can use the word enlightenment, not in a magical way, but in a very practical way by seeing it as two things. Light in the sense that it’s not heavy and light in the sense that we turn the light on. So this sati is actually turning the light on over and over and over again. But it’s very much like a strobe. You know what I mean by a strobe scope? They had them at discos where you’ve got lights on a ball that’s circling around or whatever like that. And so it actually looks like a series of still images. But then by looking at it clearly, you can begin to see the movements and the changes of the things that are happening between the strokes. So the mind is actually kind of like this. That is all in its darkness. And then the light comes on and we take a kind of little photo of it and then it goes dark again. And then we wake up again, have more sati. And so we’re going to spend time now developing. Let’s keep the light on. Let’s watch what’s going on and not spend so much time in darkness. And so as we progress through that, we begin to lighten things up by turning the light on. This is what we mean by enlightenment in the sense of knowledge that we can see what’s going on. We can see who made the problem. We can see that we can fix the problem. And we can see that this is in fact the right path that will take us to fixing this problem that we call dissatisfaction. So once we get those three things going, we now have the knowledge and vision of what is the path and what is not the path. That very path that we’re starting right away of gladdening the mind with the right effort up through right attitude. We begin to see how that actually brings the mind together into a state of unity. That unity, then, is what we mean by samadhi. It does not mean concentration. It means unifying the mind. Making you one person, not a crowd.

Speaker B: Yes, I’ve actually, you know, like on my journey of meditation for like three, almost three and a half years. So I think. I don’t. I don’t know, like, one can’t define the state of, you know, samadhi, but the state where you don’t have many mind and there’s no resistance and you’re just there, simply there. And then. Yeah, and then I feel like my consciousness is just expanding. I don’t know. Is that how.

Dhammarato: Your job then is to watch that and to experience it, but not to want it or to not try to going back to the skills that you need to develop that allows the mind to come into a state of unity. And then keep doing that over and over again. A lot of people think, oh, this is nice. What’s next? The answer is keep this nice. Because if you start wanting it to be nicer, you’ve just gotten yourself into a state of dissatisfaction. And so when these states come and just experience them without the thought of, oh, I’ve got to do this again, or I’ve got to make this one better, but rather just sit there with that satisfaction, that’s the right way to practice. Okay, so this has been about an hour now. I think that we’ve given you the kind of things that you need to, let us say, not necessarily modify or change your practice that you’ve been doing, but more to add features to it, to get to begin to develop the new skills that are needed. The skill of becoming a winner, the skill of remembering, the skill of gladdening the mind. And most importantly in the beginning is the skill of learning to control the breath, to really take in deep breaths, to allow yourself to become oxygenated, even to the point that the body begins to tingle. So tingling is really nice. Getting the body really energized is really nice.

Speaker B: I wanted to ask you one more question.

Dhammarato: Okay.

Speaker B: I have heard about, you know, I have heard about very famous sages going into deep state of mahasamadi and giving up their body. But you know, like they say, like, you know, when one goes to this. This meditation practice enough, you know, like they can leave their body or save their body when they want. But, you know, like, I won’t say I was in the state of mahasamadi, but two or half, two and a half days ago, I was meditating. And then at that time, I wasn’t. I wasn’t aware, but I was just like rejecting my body. And then I was rejecting my mind and trying to go to that peace space. And I was just trying to be in the space. And slowly I felt like something was coming out of my body. You know, the experience. And then. And then slowly I found my body to be very tight. And then I had to come back. And then, you know, and then I opened my eyes. So maybe that’s.

Dhammarato: You need to start working with that relaxation so that that tightness doesn’t build up with every out breath. It’s a relax. Begin to relax more and more so that the tightness doesn’t build up. Actually, the tightness is there. Or let us say the ability or the propensity or the habit of the tensing up is already there.

Speaker B: Yeah, habitual.

Dhammarato: And that all of the students will tense up in their meditation unless they’re mindful to keep relaxed. And so use that as a skill to begin to relax the body over and over again. Part of your practice will be that out breath, which is intentionally relaxing. But you can also think about relaxing as you’re doing that relaxing out breath. Think about. All this is so relaxing. All the tension in the face or the tightness in the body is just melting away. Meditate yourself into a blob. All right, Eric, do you have any comments to make?

Speaker B: No, not the moment.

Dhammarato: All right, well, we’ll see you both later.

Speaker B: Happy New Year.

Dhammarato: Okay, bye.

Summary of this Dhamma Talk

This talk centers on a practical, natural approach to anapanasati (mindfulness of breathing) rooted in the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path. Dhammarato critiques common Western interpretations, particularly those found in Goenka’s and Buddhaghosa’s systems, for being too rigid and focused on structured practice rather than the natural unfolding of experience. He emphasizes developing skills – such as remembering (sati), gladdening the mind, and right effort – rather than forcing specific states. He defines dukkha as “dissatisfaction” and sukha as “satisfaction,” and underscores the importance of cultivating a “can-do” attitude and intentionally creating inner satisfaction as key elements of practice leading to samadhi (unity of mind) and, ultimately, to enlightenment understood as a practical, experiential knowledge rather than a magical state. He critiques the traditional idea of meditation as being a goal in itself, but sees it as a skill training method that is meant to inform all aspects of life.

Outline of this Dhamma Talk

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  • [0:09-0:27] Introduction and Caller Background

    • Dhammarato greets the callers, Eric and Rupesh.
    • Rupesh describes his past experience with Goenka retreats and his dissatisfaction with their repetitive nature, leading him to study with Ajahn Buddhadasa.
  • [0:27-3:21] Goenka vs. Buddhadasa and Anapanasati

    • Rupesh explains that after being in a Goenka retreat, he went to Bodhgaya and stayed at a Thai temple (later found to be associated with Buddhadasa).
    • He met a monk from Wat Suan Mok, a student of Buddhadasa, who recommended Buddhadasa to him.
    • Through Buddhadasa, Rupesh gained a “completely different and more complete understanding” of anapanasati.
    • Dhammarato explains that Goenka’s system focuses on mindfulness of breathing for the first three days, then body scanning. Dhammarato notes that this is a two-step approach that goes directly into step three and is not a “right way” of looking at the first step.
  • [3:21-5:27] Body of Breath

    • Dhammarato explains that body scanning is a “systematic scan of the body over and over again” and when done correctly allows the student to experience the whole body at once, but that this can be done “in a more natural way, just by paying attention to whatever comes up.”
    • He advocates focusing on “the chest area, the back, the shoulders, the belly” – the “body of breath” (the parts of the body associated with breathing).
    • This area is more important because “most of the blood resides” there (lungs, heart, organs associated with cleansing/polluting the blood, adrenaline glands).
  • [5:27-7:38] Importance of Anapanasati and Misinterpretations

    • Dhammarato clarifies that the techniques of Mahasi and Goenka are “in a line with each other,” but that they “gloss over” the most important qualities.
    • He states that Goenka developed his process from just one paragraph of the Anapanasati Sutta, and is “missing some important points about it.”
      • He emphasizes that the anapanasati sutra states that the steps are to be developed as “skills while we’re watching the breath.”
  • [7:38-9:09] Critique of the Visuddhimagga

    • Dhammarato mentions being told (though he doesn’t remember the reference) that the Visuddhimagga says one shouldn’t control the breath.
    • He argues that the Visuddhimagga is not a reliable source of information about meditation.
    • He claims Buddhaghosa was “all book and no word,” meaning he was “more like a book editor” with no personal experience of the subject matter.
    • He says this is a problem in Sri Lanka and Burma (and parts of Nepal) with the Visuddhimagga.
  • [9:09-10:59] Goenka’s Connection to Buddhadasa

    • Dhammarato asks Rupesh where he took the Goenka retreat.
    • He mentions a funny side issue about students at Goenka retreats coming to Wat Suan Mok for Thai language retreats before heading out to Goenka retreats.
    • He says there’s a strong connection between the Goenka retreat centers and Buddhadasa in Thailand.
    • He notes that Westerners think Goenka “stands on his own.”
    • He says he has seen a video of a Western monk ordained in Burma giving a talk at Wat Suan Mok about Buddhadasa.
  • [10:59-12:35] More Complete Practice

    • He states that Buddhadasa’s teaching is “more complete”
    • He says that Buddhadasa wanted to teach a retreat so all the students need to know would be given in that one retreat, but that Goenka retreats are designed to “get the students started.”
    • He uses the analogy of Goenka teaching first grade and Buddhadasa giving a PhD in biology.
    • He contrasts the “natural method” (Buddhadasa) with the “organized method” (Goenka).
  • [12:35-14:04] Natural Method vs. Organized Method

    • The “natural method” means “anything goes” and that “anything that comes up needs to be dealt with right here right now.”
    • The “organized method” means one must follow the steps, regardless of what else is going on in their life.
    • He states this is why students have trouble with Goenka retreats because the practice “is not suited to what the student needs.”
    • Rupesh describes how during his Goenka retreat he experienced a build up of tension while doing the organized body scan.
  • [14:04-17:11] Examining Rupesh’ Tension

    • Dhammarato asks if Rupesh’ tension was caused by the body scanning, an effect of starting meditation in general, or if it was always there.
    • Rupesh says he had meditated before without such tension.
    • He describes how the Goenka instructions emphasized working “diligently as hard as you can,” leading him to feel like he was piercing his body with his awareness.
  • [17:11-19:55] Anapanasati, Four Noble Truths, and Right Effort

    • Dhammarato explains that anapanasati is about understanding “what’s going on,” and incorporates the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path.
    • He focuses on “right effort” as a balanced effort – not too much or too little.
    • He states that most Westerners “work so hard” then rest, and that strenuous effort is not right effort.
    • He says that step four of anapanasati is about “passivity” and letting things pass, and that the Pali word translates to “tranquility,” which is misunderstood in the west.
    • He says the word “tranquility” is often understood as magical and therefore unreachable, but that it means “to relax.”
    • He states that we need to train ourselves “with every breath to start to relax.”
  • [19:55-22:42] Critique of Rigid Posture and Sitting Meditation

    • He critiques the Goenka method of sitting meditation (hands still, legs still, eyes closed) because it does not include the head, shoulders or neck.
    • He says the student thinks “that means everything,” but that one should move these parts of the body to relax.
    • He says the idea of following an “exact program” is not accurate and creates rigidity.
    • He uses the example of slouching and how one should sit up to a point, but not so straight as to remove the natural curve of the spine.
    • He says this is necessary for proper breathing and to not cause tension in the back.
    • He notes that “all of this stuff about what kind of postures and that kind of stuff there’s nothing about it in the sutras”
    • He states that all the sitting meditation practices in Southeast Asia are later editions.
    • He discusses the time of Asoka, when Alexander the Great came to India and when statues of the Buddha were first made, a Greek addition that changed how we see the Buddha.
  • [22:42-23:57] Natural Method and Resistance

    • He asks whether the Buddha sat still because he had “come to rest” or was “told to do that.”
    • He says if it’s the “organized way” then the mind always resists.
    • He states that the “actual method” is a “natural way.”
    • He adds that even though it will be described in an organized way, it’s to be practiced naturally.
  • [23:57-25:12] Dependent Origination (Paticca Samuppada)

    • He introduces the concept of paticca samuppada (dependent origination) as the second noble truth, a description of how the mind works.
    • He states that this will be explored more later once the mind is fit for work.
  • [25:12-27:45] Breath Control and Cleaning the Blood

    • He states that the practice of anapanasati is actually about breath control not just watching the breath from the outside.
      • He emphasizes that we need to intentionally breathe long, deep breaths, and that the out-breath should be a sigh for relaxation.
    • He explains that the out-breath cleans the lungs, and that shallow breathing allows byproducts of the blood to build up in the lungs and then back into the blood, leading to tightness and tension.
      • He states that by breathing deeply and in a relaxed way we cleanse the blood and oxygenate the mind, making it fit for work.
  • [27:45-29:04] Brain Function and Digestion

    • He explains that the brain consumes most of the energy when a person is at rest.
    • He states that digestion prevents the brain from functioning well, so one needs to be mindful of what they are eating.
    • He says that when the belly has little work to do and we are intentionally breathing well, the brain is oxygenated, and is fit for work.
  • [29:04-32:35] Mind Wandering and Dukkha (Dissatisfaction)

    • He states that the mind wandering is the normal state, like a cow or horse grazing.
    • He mentions that Buddhists called this “monkey mind,” a term he thinks Goenka also uses.
    • He states that students feel bad when the mind wanders because they see they are out of control.
    • He emphasizes that the point of the practice is to “remove the hindrances” from the mind (restlessness, doubt, dullness, craving).
    • He argues that when the mind wanders and the student wants it to be different, they become “dissatisfied” and therefore are practicing incorrectly.
    • He defines dukkha not as “suffering” but as “unsatisfying,” “unpleasant,” and “not pleasing.”
  • [32:35-34:50] Sukha (Satisfaction) and the Natural Method

    • He says when the mind is cleaned out of dissatisfaction, we develop the skills for satisfaction ( sukha), which is not pleasure but is often wrongly translated as “pleasure.”
    • He states that step six of anapanasati is about achieving satisfaction, something Goenka doesn’t focus on.
    • He notes that part of satisfaction is to have the body relaxed, so we should use all the steps of anapanasati, as a symphony working together.
  • [34:50-38:37] Gladdening the Mind and the Importance of Sati

    • He states that step 10 of anapanasati is “gladdening the mind,” which is to bring the mind into a state of brightness.
      • He says that we must not just sharpen the mind with the breath, but change what we’re thinking by thinking good thoughts/affirmations.
    • He gives an example, that when one recognizes obstruction (feeling bad, anxiety, tension), they can say “I see that,” as it’s important to wake up to these obstructions.
      • He explains that we often think unwholesome things such as looking to the past to find problems, which is “a big waste of time.”
      • He says that dragging the mind out of its “own sewer” requires some effort, and uses the phrase “aha, I caught you, I see you Mr. Hindrance.”
      • He says these phrases chase away the wandering mind, sister Suzy, anxiety or tension in the face.
    • He explains that sati in Pali is to wake up, and that another way of saying sati is “remembering,” whereas “mindfulness” is too complex.
    • He states the Buddha was clear that waking up and investigation go together.
  • [38:37-42:03] The Mind and the Satipatthana

    • He explains that when one recognizes the mind wandered from the breath, that in itself is sati.
      • He states that this is also step nine of anapanasati and is the first element of satipatthana (foundations of mindfulness) which are the body, feelings, the mind, and minds objects.
    • He says they have discussed steps 1-4 concerning the body, and now step 9 concerning the mind.
      • He explains that one develops the skill of seeing what the mind is like, and experiencing its state (dull, sharp, exalted).
    • He states that eventually we begin to look at how the mind works via paticca samuppada (dependent origination) as a process.
  • [42:03-43:52] Wholesome Thoughts and Feelings

    • He emphasizes using wholesome thoughts, as opposed to unwholesome thoughts, as paticca samuppada shows how we wind up in dukkha because we are not watching our feelings.
    • He mentions that vedana (feelings) are the second step of the satipatthana.
    • He suggests working with the mind and body for one to two weeks before working with feelings.
    • He emphasizes that the beginning step is watching the state of the mind (wandering, restless, tired, dull, cloudy, bright, exalted, fit for work).
    • He says getting the mind fit for work is done by correct breathing.
      • He states once this has been achieved, we begin to intentionally feel good and bring the mind into a state of satisfaction.
  • [43:52-46:40] Right View, Right Effort, and Right Attitude

    • He explains how the Eightfold Path and the Four Noble Truths can be applied from the beginning of practice.
      • He explains that the first step of the path is “right view,” which is better than the mind wandering around all over the place.
      • He says “right effort” is to gladden the mind.
      • He explains that the “aha, I caught you” is another way of saying “this is really nice.”
      • He explains that these practices bring us to “right attitude.”
      • He explains that “right attitude” is about a good feeling and being a “winner” rather than a victim.
      • He says that victimhood is “how we were raised,” with parents telling us to do things, even if we feel bad about doing them.
  • [46:40-48:33] Victim Mentality

    • He says the state of being a victim means being a victim of the government, religions, the education system, and business.
      • He says that business has told us that we have to get a job, get more money, and then we can be happy later.
    • He says this is a “bait and switch game” similar to that used by religion, and that once we see that we don’t have to get our joy from the outside world we can start creating it from within.
  • [48:33-50:40] Piti, Sukha, and First Jhana

    • He states that satisfaction must come from inside our own mind.
    • He states that piti and sukha work together, as well as steps 5 and 6 of anapanasati, and are also aspects of the first jhana.
    • He says that if practicing anapanasati correctly, it will take one into the first jhana.
    • He explains that practicing anapanasati correctly takes one into a path of first jhana, which is going into and falling out of first jhana, but that as we practice this we develop the ability to sustain it.
  • [50:40-53:15] The Lion Heart and Sustained Satisfaction

    • He states that we sustain the ability to achieve the first jhana by not going out of it before we completely develop it, but that even in that state there is more to be done.
    • He says the attitude that is being developed is the attitude of a “winner” as the Buddha was a lion, not a lamb or sheep.
    • He uses the example of Angulimala, and explains that the Buddha was “lion hearted, strong and not afraid.”
    • He states that much of that comes from the phrase “I can do this.”
    • He states that once one has the strong attitude of being a lion, then we feel successful and get satisfaction.
    • He states that the goal is to maintain the state of satisfaction, and that this requires having wholesome thoughts.
      • He explains that when thoughts come and carry us out of the state, do not get discouraged, and that this is the “normal state of mind.”
  • [53:15-57:29] Sati, Meditation, and Mental Training

    • He explains that the point of formal practice is to develop sati by remembering to keep coming back to the present moment.
    • He explains that the goal is that eventually sati will come whenever we need it, even in work.
    • He emphasizes that our whole life then revolves around this sati practice of breathing deeply, gladdening the mind, getting ourselves into a state where we feel like we can do this, and that we are a champion.
    • He clarifies that this is not a state of pride, but of joy and satisfaction.
    • He says this has been an overview of the practice, but that when we have tension in the face, we can say “I see that,” breathe into it, and relax.
    • He states that if practicing correctly, then one will like meditation.
    • He says meditation is not the proper word, but that the practice of anapanasati is better described as “mental development or mental training (citta bhavana)”.
    • He explains that it’s training the mind to gather the skills for a happy and joyful life and to realize that you are the champion and the boss of your life.
  • [57:29-60:06] Dukkha, Four Noble Truths, and Enlightenment

    • He says that through this training we come to understand where all the dukkha comes from, and that we are making and creating it, and that we can stop doing that.
    • He explains how the Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path come into play from the beginning of the practice and leads to the first jhana.
    • He says the point is to apply the mind to the present moment and to sustain the satisfaction of being in the present moment.
    • He states that when one can sustain this, it becomes the “fruit of the first jhana,” which means the mind is fit for work and can see what’s going on in the body, mind, and the world with all of the cause and effect.
    • He states this is the practice of Four Noble Truths, Eightfold Path, anapanasati, and satipatthana so that we can see how the mind works ( paticca samuppada).
    • He says that the outcome is “lightness” or enlightenment in a practical way, and not in a magical way.
    • He clarifies that lightness means it’s not heavy, and also in the sense of turning on a light.
    • He compares sati to turning a light on, like a stroboscope, which reveals the changes and movements in still images.
  • [60:06-62:35] Stroboscope Analogy, Knowledge, and Samadhi

    • He explains that the mind is like a dark room, and that we take a little photo of it when the light of sati comes on.
    • He explains we are spending our time developing sati to keep the light on to see what is going on.
    • He says by turning the light on we understand that we make the problem, and that we can fix it, which is the path to fixing the problem that we call dissatisfaction.
    • He states that this leads to the knowledge and vision of what the path is and what the path is not.
    • He states that the path brings the mind to a state of unity or samadhi, and that samadhi means unifying the mind, rather than concentration.
    • Rupesh describes that he has had experiences where he is at unity and not resisting, and his consciousness expands.
  • [62:35-63:35] Keeping the Nice, Not Wanting More

    • Dhammarato says the goal is to watch the states and experience them, but not want them, as this leads to dissatisfaction.
    • He says the point is to sit in the satisfaction without wanting it to be better.
  • [63:35-64:31] Summary and Key Takeaways

    • He summarizes the conversation as having provided ways to add to Rupesh’ practice, including learning to be a “winner,” remembering, gladdening the mind, and controlling the breath.
      • He says a key element is to breathe deeply so that the body is oxygenated and tingles.
  • [64:31-67:14] Question About Deep Samadhi

    • Rupesh tells a story about sages who enter deep samadhi and leave their body.
    • Rupesh says he once meditated for three and a half days and felt as if he was rejecting his body, and as if something was leaving it.
    • He states that afterwards his body felt tight.
    • Dhammarato suggests working with relaxation so that tightness does not build up.
    • He says the tightness is already there and that students will tense up if not mindful to stay relaxed.
    • He states that one should use the out-breath as an opportunity to relax and think that the tension in the face and body is melting away.
    • He jokes that one should meditate themselves into a blob.
  • [67:14-67:23] Closing

    • Dhammarato asks Eric if he has comments, and he states that he does not.
    • Dhammarato says goodbye to both.

3. Special Attention Points

  • Pali Terms and Translations:

    • Dukkha: Not “suffering,” but “dissatisfaction,” “unsatisfactory,” “not pleasing.”
    • Sukha: Not “pleasure,” but “satisfaction,” the opposite of dukkha.
    • Sati: Not “mindfulness” (which has too much complexity), but “remembering” or “waking up.”
    • Piti: Can-do attitude.
      • Samadhi: Not “concentration,” but “unifying the mind,” being one person rather than a crowd.
      • Citta Bhavana: “Mental development” or “mental training” rather than “meditation.”
  • Distinctions Between Traditional and Western Interpretations:

    • He critiques rigid, structured approaches to meditation (like Goenka’s) as being unsuited to individual needs.
    • He argues against the idea of forcing a specific meditative state (e.g., forced stillness).
    • He emphasizes the need to control the breath rather than passively watching it.
    • He criticizes the Visuddhimagga as unreliable due to its reliance on books rather than personal experience.
    • He redefines the meaning of terms such as dukkha, sukha, sati and samadhi
  • Practical Application:

    • He emphasizes observing and working with what is present in the moment.
    • He recommends focusing on the “body of breath” and relaxing the body.
    • He advocates using affirmations and good thoughts.
    • He emphasizes taking deep breaths.
    • He urges awareness of tension.
    • He introduces the “aha, I see you” technique to deal with hindrances.
    • He emphasizes integrating meditative skills into everyday life.
  • Recurring Themes and Phrases:

    • “Natural method” vs. “organized method”
    • “Right effort” as balanced effort.
    • The importance of breath control for oxygenating the brain and relaxing the body.
    • The “aha, I see you” technique for noticing hindrances.
    • Developing skills over techniques.
      • The importance of feeling like a winner, and not a victim.
    • “Making the mind fit for work”
    • “Gladdening the mind”
  • Critique of Western Buddhist Interpretations:

    • Westerners often misunderstand dukkha as “suffering.”
    • Westerners tend to approach meditation as rigid structure rather than natural process.
      • Westerners work too hard at meditation or are lazy and fall between the two.
    • They misinterpret the meaning of tranquility and see it as unreachable.
    • They try too hard to control the mind during meditation.
    • They treat anapanasati as mindfulness of breath, and not as breath control, and they miss the most important qualities.

Key Practice Instructions and Recommendations

  • Focus on the “Body of Breath”: Pay attention to the chest, back, shoulders, and belly, rather than doing a systematic body scan.
  • Control Your Breathing: Take long, deep breaths, and sigh on the out-breath to relax and cleanse your blood.
  • Relax Your Body: Work on relaxing the body from the face down, so that you meditate yourself into a “blob.”
  • Right Effort: Practice with a balanced effort, not working too hard or too little.
  • Aha I See You: Use phrases like “aha I caught you,” or “I see you,” when you recognize hindrances like the wandering mind, tension, or bad thoughts.
  • Gladden the Mind: Use affirmations and good thoughts.
  • Develop Sati (Remembering): Practice remembering to come back to the breath, and bring that awareness into everyday life.
  • Right Attitude: See yourself as a “winner” rather than a victim. Develop the attitude “I can do this.”
  • Embrace Satisfaction: Instead of wanting more, stay with the state of satisfaction once you have achieved it.
  • Train the Mind: See “meditation” as “mental training” or “mental development,” that is designed to make the mind fit for work and for developing the skills to have a happy life.
  • Be Natural: Instead of following a rigid system, allow the experience to unfold naturally.

By focusing on these core principles, any student can begin incorporating these teachings into their daily practice immediately. The key is not to follow a strict regimen, but to pay attention to what comes up and learn the skills to manage one’s mind naturally.

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